The Messy Middle Matters

Ep 17: Titles Matter

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the complex role of titles and credentials in professional life. From HRIS databases that never quite get it right to the very real ways marginalized folks use credentials as armor, this conversation explores how titles are used, misused, and misunderstood.
They explore how titles can signal authority, invite (or block) collaboration, and even become tools of gatekeeping. You'll hear insights on how to navigate the mismatch between internal job classifications and your public-facing identity, the difference between strategic self-representation and rigid hierarchy, and why titles never tell the whole story—but still matter deeply.
Whether you're a people leader trying to make equitable org charts, or someone trying to translate your experience for a new industry, this episode offers clarity, nuance, and maybe even a little permission to rewrite your title on your own terms.
 
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Ep 16: Not Everything is a Zero-Sum Game

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the difference between scarcity and abundance mindsets—starting with a “zero-sum game” pizza analogy (yes, pizza 🍕). They explore how our beliefs about resources, success, and competition shape how we lead, collaborate, and show up in the world.
Drawing on The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek, Indra shares how this framework helps leaders break out of short-term, win-or-lose thinking and into a more sustainable, collective approach. Amanda adds insights on how abundance isn’t about being naïve—it’s about being curious, strategic, and generous, even in high-pressure environments.
Whether you're navigating workplace dynamics, managing a team, or just trying to break free of zero-sum thinking, this episode offers real tools for shifting your mindset—and helping others shift theirs.
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Ep 15: Soft Skills: The Skills No One Teaches (but everyone needs)

Soft skills: everyone talks about them, few people define them, and even fewer get help building them. In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the nuanced world of interpersonal and emotional intelligence—the unspoken skills that make or break how we collaborate, lead, and show up at work.
From navigating conflict and giving feedback to facilitating meetings and reading the room, they explore why soft skills often surface in high-stakes moments... and why most training programs barely scratch the surface.
They share real talk on:
Whether soft skills are innate or learned
Why these abilities require practice, not just theory
How to start small and build confidence in safe spaces
And how to listen to podcasts, panels, or even reality shows with a soft-skills lens
 
This episode is a reminder that emotional intelligence isn’t fluff—it’s foundational. And like any skill, it can be trained, strengthened, and occasionally pulled in for emergency use.
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Ep 14: Getting Stuff Done: The Value of Project & Program Professionals

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the often overlooked power of Project, Program, and Operations Managers (PMs), the PMs who hold organizations together behind the scenes. As companies cut budgets, these critical roles are frequently the first to go. However, eliminating the very people who create clarity, enable execution, and manage complexity can have long-term consequences.
This episode defines the distinctions between PM roles and highlights the invisible, high-impact work they do, like change management, stakeholder alignment, and process improvement. It challenges the myth that PMs are just about checklists. Indra and Amanda also share how these roles are evolving, the communities shifting the conversation, and why investing in strong PMs is investing in your company’s ability to deliver.
Useful Links:
Generalist World: https://www.generalist.world/
Designops Assembly: https://www.linkedin.com/company/designops-assembly
Levels of Program & Operations Management: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17C_0-ITv4Sh3baLtnILEgImAEftDnd1uUjHo4Hpycss/edit?usp=sharing 
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Ep 13: Why Outsiders Can Say the Quiet Thing Out Loud

Sometimes it takes an outsider to say what everyone on the inside is thinking but can’t express. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the value and complexity of bringing in consultants, agencies, and subject matter experts to say the quiet thing out loud. They explore how power dynamics, organizational culture, and fear of professional consequences can keep internal voices silent and why external perspectives can cut through the noise.
Through real-world examples from their careers, they highlight:
The benefits of outsider objectivity and “fresh eyes”
When and how to bring in external voices for maximum impact
The risks and resentments that can arise in these dynamics
Practical tips for using consultants without eroding team trust.
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Ep 12: Icebreakers: Creating Space for Connection

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful world of icebreakers, those sometimes awkward, sometimes delightful moments that set the tone for team connection. Whether you're leading a virtual kickoff, hosting a new hire orientation, or just trying to get humans to look each other in the eyes, the right icebreaker can ease social anxiety, build rapport, and foster inclusive environments.
They explore:
Why icebreakers matter (even for well-established teams)
What makes an icebreaker effective, and what makes it flounder
Tips for adapting to different personalities, cultures, and formats
Their favorite (and least favorite) icebreakers
How to avoid common pitfalls and keep it purposeful
If you're leading teams or planning meetings, this one's for you. It’s all about creating small moments that invite human connection, without forcing it.
Useful Links:
Where Should We Begin - A Game of StoriesPro tip: remove the NSFW cards https://game.estherperel.com/products/where-should-we-begin-a-game-of-stories-2nd-edition
We’re Not Really Strangers https://www.werenotreallystrangers.com/
Be Plucky - 1:1 Cards Pro tip: The Mentor pack is Indra’s favorite for ice breakers About the cards: https://www.beplucky.com/category/11cards/Buy the cards: https://shop.beplucky.com/
So… a collection of questions for deeper discussions https://www.socards.org/
Creative Sprint Card Deck Can be leveraged for icebreakers; especially good for creative teams https://www.anotherlimitedrebellion.com/the-creative-sprint-card-deck
Gamestorming Great resource for frameworks for business problem solving. Some can be simplified rather easily Site: https://gamestorming.com/Book: https://a.co/d/hobgwn2
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Ep 11: The Serious Case for Not Taking Everything So Seriously

Is it possible that the secret to better teamwork, sharper ideas, and a more connected workplace is... play?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda bust the myth that work and play are opposites. They explore how introducing moments of levity, whether it’s custom Slack emojis, playful team names, or low-stakes laughter, can actually deepen collaboration, trust, and creativity.
They break down the different types of play that can live comfortably (and appropriately) in professional settings, and offer guidance on how to bring joy into work without crossing the line into "mandatory fun." Whether you're leading a team or just trying to make your next meeting feel less like a root canal, this conversation invites you to rethink what productivity can look like, when you add a little play to the mix.
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Ep 10: Context Matters: The Power of Clarifying Questions

"I know what that word means… but what do you mean by it?"
In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful skill of asking clarifying questions. Whether it's untangling workplace jargon, bridging communication gaps, or just making sure everyone’s on the same page, asking for context can transform how teams collaborate.
We explore the importance of shared understanding, the art of curiosity without judgment, and the sneaky barriers that keep people from speaking up. From why writing things down can make ideas more accessible to how fear of being wrong stops us from asking for clarity, this episode is a reminder that meaning isn’t universal and questions aren’t weakness, they’re wisdom.
Useful Links:
Jeff Patton’s Illustrations for Shared Understanding: https://images.app.goo.gl/88HDkJVwpqHWvPvs7
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Ep 09: Work Doesn’t Happen in a Vacuum: Navigating Challenging Times Together

What happens when life outside the office becomes impossible to ignore? In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, we explore what it means to be human at work, particularly during personal, local, or global crises.
From the ongoing effects of the pandemic to sudden personal emergencies, Indra and Amanda explore how leaders and employees alike can demonstrate empathy, set realistic expectations, and foster cultures that prioritize people over productivity.
This is a conversation about acknowledging reality, embracing flexibility, and navigating that murky space between personal and professional life without losing sight of our humanity.
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Ep 08: Boxes, Biases & Breakthroughs: Navigating Self-Assessments at Work

n this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the world of self-assessments. Whether they’re assigned to us by HR or are one of those eerily specific online quizzes we can’t help but take, they explore the pros and cons of personality and performance evaluations, sharing personal stories and asking: When do these tools help us grow? And when do they box us in?
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