The Messy Middle Matters

People Management: Not Just a Step Up, A Career Shift

Being good at your job doesn’t automatically mean you’ll be good at managing people. So why do so many companies treat management as the default next step?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the myths and realities of people management—why some folks are promoted before they’re ready, what actually makes a great leader, and why management isn’t just a promotion but an entirely different job. They explore the essential skills needed to succeed, the emotional labor of leadership, and alternative career paths for those who want to grow without managing people.
Thinking about stepping into management? Already dealing with a less-than-stellar boss? Either way, this episode is for you!
Useful Links
Register for the May/June So Now You’re a Manager (SNYAM) Workshop with Jen Dary: https://www.beplucky.com/pluckyevents/so-now-youre-a-manager-may-june-2025/
Coaching with Indra: https://www.peopleprocessthings.com/coaching
The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

Feedback Fatigue

These days, feedback is everywhere. But are we benefiting from it, or are we just drowning in a sea of unsolicited opinions and HR-driven surveys?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda dive into the feedback frenzy: how social media and corporate feedback tools have fueled a culture of constant evaluation, the unintended consequences of feedback overload, and the real cost of all these mandatory feedback programs.
They also break down practical ways to filter out the noise, differentiate between helpful and unhelpful feedback, and give feedback in a way that supports growth.
If you’ve ever rolled your eyes at yet another feedback request, this episode is for you!
 
Useful Links
Five questions to ensure your feedback is a gift https://medium.com/@indrapendence/five-questions-to-ensure-your-feedback-is-a-gift-11063f69c925 
Brené Brown’s talk featuring Teddy Roosevelt’s Man In the Arena quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-JXOnFOXQk  
The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback 

Making the Invisible Work Count

Some work is easy to measure—deadlines met, projects delivered, goals achieved. But what about the work that holds everything together?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda discuss their journey of recognizing Glue Work—the often invisible tasks that keep teams functioning but rarely get acknowledged. They share how naming this work was a crucial first step and explore strategies to make it visible, valued, and a recognized part of career growth.
This is just the beginning of a much bigger conversation—because no one should have to choose between doing the work that keeps teams thriving and getting ahead in their career.
 
Helpful Links
For more about the Glue Work Framework, including upcoming webinars: www.thegluework.com
Indra's latest blog post about the Glue Work Framework: https://medium.com/@indrapendence/making-the-invisible-work-count-1f7dcb9f794c
The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: www.themessymiddlematters.com/glossary
Feedback for Indra & Amanda:  www.themessymiddlematters.com/feedback

The Overdiagnosis of Impostor Syndrome

Impostor syndrome is often framed as an internal struggle, but what if the real issue isn’t impostor syndrome, but something else?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda explore the fine line between impostor syndrome and the discomfort of learning something new. 
They also share a real-life workplace experience where they initially thought they were battling self-doubt—only to uncover a deeper, systemic issue at play. They walk through how they gathered the right people, documented the challenge, and ultimately realized the problem wasn’t what it seemed. 
Join us as we discuss the power of reframing workplace struggles and why caring for the collective leads to better outcomes for everyone.
Things mentioned in our episode:
Glossary of Terms
It's Great to Suck at Surfing
Feedback

Words Matter

The way we define and communicate ideas—whether through common language, acronyms, or company-specific terms—shapes how we work together. Without a shared vocabulary, teams risk misalignment, confusion, and even chaos.
In this episode, we explore why shared understanding is foundational to navigating the messy middle. We’ll dig deeper into what the messy middle really means and why it deserves an entire podcast. When we can name and define the challenges we face, we gain the clarity needed to move forward—together.
Join us as we unpack the power of language, alignment, and shared meaning in the moments that matter most.

Welcome to The Messy Middle

The messy middle—it’s that chaotic, uncertain, sometimes frustrating space between where you started and where you want to be. It’s the part of the journey that rarely makes it into the highlight reel, but it’s where the real work happens.
In this first episode, we introduce The Messy Middle Matters and why this often-overlooked stage of work and life deserves more attention. We’ll share our experiences navigating the messy middle, what draws us to these conversations, and who we hope to highlight.
If you’ve ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or like you’re in the thick of it with no clear way forward—this podcast is for you. Welcome to The Messy Middle Matters. Let’s dig in.